On 2019-02-26 13:10:37, user Laurentius Huber wrote:
Please find a formatted version of this response letter with figures here: https://goo.gl/3czXWG
Response Letter:<br />
We thank the referees for reviewing our manuscript entitled “Sub-millimeter fMRI reveals multiple topographical digit representations that form action maps in human motor cortex”. The critical reading of this manuscript is highly appreciated, and we believe that the comments have helped to improve the manuscript and clarify the interpretation of the presented results. The manuscript has been modified according to the reviewers’ suggestions.<br />
All points raised by the reviewers have been addressed in detail below.
Reviewer #1:<br />
R1.1 <br />
This is a very interesting study investigating the spatial organization of hand movement representations in M1. Certainly the hand representation in M1 is likely complex and therefore requires advanced methods to probe. Both imaging and neurophysiological evidence clearly suggests that M1 is not so much concerned with the representation of fingers, but rather of complex hand movements. The use of a winner-take-all map for fingers is therefore likely a less effective way of gaining a deeper understanding of the organization of M1.
We thank the reviewer for his/her expert assessment and for appreciating the necessity of advance methodology to investigate the complex representations in M1.
We would like to comment on the reviewer’s statement that “imaging and neurophysiological evidence clearly suggests that M1 is not so much concerned with the representation of fingers, but rather of complex hand movements”. We agree that there is imaging and electrophysiological evidence that parts of M1 can represent complex hand movements. However, we take issue that it would be established that the entire M1 must behave like this. We believe this is only part of the entire picture. <br />
In fact, physiological support of the control of the mentioned “complex hand movement” and muscle and movement synergies comes from investigations of cortico-motoneuronal (CM) cells, (CM cells are the ones with motor neurons innervating shoulder, elbow, and finger muscles). Note, however, that these representations and these cells are confined to the caudal part of M1 (also known as the “new” M1 or Brodmann area BA4p). This is the evolutionary younger part of M1 that is located deep in the central sulcus. In this part of M1, individual body parts are largely overlapping (probably to facilitate complex hand movement) and a finger dominance maps might be misleading (as the reviewer suggested).
However, we would like to note that there are no such CM cells in the rostal M1 (Rathelot and Strick, 2006, 2009). As pointed out in Fig. S9 of or manuscript, the new finding of mirrored finger representations are solely visible in the rostal M1 (a.k.a. “old” M1 or BA4a). In this evolutinary old part of M1, body part movements (e.g. hand, elbow, shoulder) have locally distinct domains with less overlap compared to BA4p.<br />
Thus, we respectfully disagree with the reviewer about the effectiveness of finger dominance maps. These maps are extensively used in imaging and electrophysiology and have efficiently lead to important findings throughout the last century (Woolsey 1979; Hlustik 2001; Idovina 2001; Sanes 1995; Penfield 1937; Schieber 1993; Schellekens 2018; Olman 2012; Siero 2014). We don’t want to discredit this large body of literature of body part maps. And we would also like to use the tool of finger dominance maps, when appropriate.
We would also like to point out that at no point in this analysis, we are estimating “winner-takes-all maps”. We are aware of the shortcoming of winner-takes all maps and thus, the finger-dominance maps that we are depicting in many figures, are not binary. Instead, our finger-dominance maps are shown with a continuous color scale. Every voxel has a relative regime (from 0 to 1) of how much it is dominated from that finger. This analysis retains the fact that multiple fingers can be represented in the same voxel.<br />
For even more quantitative interpretations, (e.g. to avoid that the color of one fingers covers the color of another fingers that is more weakly represented) we included Fig. 3B that shows the mirrored representation in column profiles.
The methods presented in this paper are carefully applied and well documented. In fact the authors have made the tools and data available in an open repository, for which they are to be commended. I really have no quibbles with the processing or VASO approach, both of which have extensive prior publication history.
We thank the reviewer for recognizing the importance of investigating the organization of M1 and we are delighted that the reviewer considers out methods adequate.
R1.2 <br />
The paper is clearly written and illustrated. However the crux of the problem lies in the extent of the novelty of the imaging sequence versus the lack of novelty in the neuroscience findings. Certainly practioners of VASO have made a convincing argument for its superiority over GE-EPI BOLD for the localization of function at the mesoscopic scale and I certainly am convinced of that. Nonetheless researchers around the globe have used GE-EPI to look at various columnar structures in animal and human brain with some degree of success. While the results in this paper are the amongst the clearest, the spatial resolution doesn't really go beyond what Cheng et al. used in their Neuron paper in 2001. So while VASO is certainly a viable and perhaps better alternative to BOLD, this manuscript doesn't really advance the MRI side of the equation much beyond what these authors and others have already shown.
We thank the reviewer for appreciating the clarity of the manuscript and for appreciating the value of VASO in high-resolution fMRI.<br />
Given the reviewer’s doubts about the novelty, we would like to explicitly point out the methodological advancements we achieved and novel neuroscience finding that we found.
Methodological Novelty:<br />
We agree with reviewer, that previous studies could already achieve sub-millimeter in-plane resolutions. Note, however that previous papers (including the Cheng paper) relied on flat portions of cortices and collapsed the third dimension along 3-4mm thick MR-slices. This means that precious MRI methods to investigate “columnar” alignment where not applicable across people and certainly not across the entire precentral M1-gray matter bank with its characteristic Omega-like folding pattern. VASO has never before proven its applicability for sub-millimeter “columnar” imaging. And certainly not for along the curved cortex. This is a novel achievement. <br />
We agree with the reviewer that we could previously already show indications of layer results (with submillimeter in-plane resolution). Please note however, that our previous methodology was limited to a very small FOV of less than 3cm in read direction and less than 2cm in slice direction, resulting in a coverage that could only capture 0.8% of the cortex. In previous studies, this was sufficient to address research questions about individual chunks of the cortex. However, it is not sufficient for topographical mapping of “columnar” organization. One fundamental achievement of this study is that we developed a fundamentally new acquisition approach that allows us to achieve 22% of brain coverage. This was achieved with the novel development of advanced readout strategies. As such, we invested two years of development for the inclusion of advanced GRAPPA reconstruction, asymmetric echoes, and corresponding reconstruction to image space. Compared to our previous methods, the resulting coverage is more than an order of magnitude bigger. This is fundamentally novel and enabled the present study in the first place. <br />
In this study we developed a fundamentally new analysis methodology. The corresponding LAYNII software package used here allows columnar and laminar signal pooling in the voxel space of the native EPI space. There is no other analysis method that can achieve this. While there are previous automatic software packages (e.g. FreeSurfer, CBS-Tools etc.) that allow similar analysis steps, they are not suitable to detect ‘columnar’ structures that are smaller than 1mm (5 digits in 3mm) within the curved cortex. These methods require closed surfaces (not possible with, partial brain coverage), alignment with ‘anatomical’ data (which requires spatial resampling=blurring). Previous methods work in vertex space (not voxel space) and thus are associated with resolution loss during spatial resampling, which makes the neighboring finger representations merge and disappear. The mirrored finger results are only as clearly visible with all the above analysis advancements. And thus, we consider these advancements as a fundamental methodological novelty. <br />
Other methodological analysis novelties developed here are the columnar smoothing without signal leakage across sulci, laminar Point-spread function estimation (Fig. S3, S8), layering in 3D with isotropic voxels (not only 2D as previously), cortical unfolding in voxel space.
Biological novelty<br />
With respect to the referenced study from Cheng et al., we would like to point out that they showed patterns that resembled the expected shape and size as columns but never established such structure and organization. There is no expected ground truth of ocular dominance columns alignment (e.g. where to find which columns). This is different for our study. We can differentiate between any random columnar pattern compared to a meaningful somatotopic organization, with neighbouring fingers being represented in neighbouring columns. This form of meaningful columnar mapping at submillimeter scale is novel compared to Cheng et al.<br />
As opposed to previous columnar fMRI studies, we do not simply try to depict known structures with known shape and size as proof-of-principle for a method as previous studies. Instead here, we are finding previously unknown organization principles of sub-millimeter representations in M1. This is a fundamentally new approach and a paradigm shift for the field of “columnar” and “laminar” fMRI. <br />
We report fundamentally new neuroscientific insights about how the previously described action representations in the microscopic regime are integrated into previously described body-part representations in the macroscopic regime This was not described until now and is a fundamental novelty of this study.<br />
We agree with the reviewer that previous studies (including Ejaz et al.,) found deviations of the homunculus model. It is not clear until now, however, how these deviations (multiple representations and fractionalizations) are coming about. Are these deviation of the linear body-part alignments just randomly aligned? Or do the deviations follow a specific geometric order? If yes, which one? According to which order are the movement actions aligned? In this study we find -for the first time- mirrored representations of individual digits in the primary motor cortex that are differently engages for different actions. This is novel and has not been described previously.
In the revised version of the manuscript, we tried to stress the novelty of the study.
R1.2 <br />
So we are left with the importance of the neuroscientific findings, and here I have some more serious issues. The organization of M1 and S1 along an action-axis is well known and certainly not as mysterious as the authors would represent.
We agree with the reviewer that there are previous accounts of action representations in the motor cortex. We are describing them as part of our introduction and discussion section. We did not intend to describe them as ‘mysterious’ by any means. The point that we are trying to make is that these action representations are partly in conflict with somatotopic organization principles that are found in most of the high-resolution imaging literature (e.g. Schellekens 2018; Olman 2012; Siero 2014).
In the revised version of the manuscript, we emphasize the [Ejaz et al., 2015] even more in a dedicated paragraph about it.
R1.3 <br />
Furthermore, they have dismissed a paper that shows a similar result using MRI by misrepresenting the findings of that paper as I understand them (Ejaz et al., 2015, Nature Neurosci). <br />
Specifically, in reference to that paper, Huber et al. state that 1) the work argues for a simple topographic arrangement of single finger representations in S1, and 2) that the overlap between finger activation patterns is "due to noise". In that work (Ejaz et al., 2015), they used BOLD fMRI to measure the activity patterns evoked by single- and multi-finger movements in M1 and S1. The spatial arrangements of these patterns in both regions were stable within each participant (compared across different scanning sessions), but highly variable across participants. These finger patterns are shown in Fig. 1 of that paper. Close visual inspection of the patterns reveals they do not follow a clear linear arrangement in either S1 or M1, and perhaps some evidence of digit "mirroring" can be observed - definitely there are parts of the cortex activated for the thumb at the dorsal end of the hand region.
They then calculate the dissimilarity between all pairs of finger patterns for M1 and S1, separately. Importantly, the relative dissimilarity between any pair of activity patterns (within a participant) was highly stable across participants. This is notable given the spatial arrangements of these patterns was highly variable across individuals. One stable characteristic was that the thumb pattern was more similar to the little finger than to the ring finger. This finding clearly shows - contrary to what Huber et al. claim it shows - that a simple linear somatotopic arrangement cannot account for the digit representations in M1 or S1.
1.) Our justification for the statements in the previous version of the paper:<br />
We assume the reviewer refers to the citation on page 5 of the original manuscript:
“In the primary somatosensory cortex, we find no clear deviations from the homunculus model as shown previously in humans (Ejaz 2015; Schluppeck 2017; Olman 2012; Kolasinski 2016; Shellekens 2018).”
This statement in our manuscript was based on the following paragraph in [Ejaz et al., 2015] from page 1034:
“There was some consistency: when averaging activity patterns across participants (Fig. 1), a blurry somatotopic arrangement became visible with the thumb activating more ventral and the other fingers more dorsal areas of the motor strip.”
Figure caption: adapted screenshot from Fig. 1 of Ejaz et al. Subject average activation maps show rough features of linear somatotopic arrangement (with secondary deviations). Thumb representations peaks at the bottom (pink arrow) and the remaining fingers are linearly aligned with the little finger representation peaking at the top (red arrow).<br />
We also noticed indications of a secondary thumb representation in Fig. 1 of [Ejaz et al., 2015] next to the index finger. We discussed these double-thumb indications in the Ejaz et al. figures extensively among ourselves and eventually decided not elaborate on them in our manuscript for the following reasons:<br />
In our own pilot studies, we noticed that for some kinds of thumb movement tasks, the thumb-movement can come along with unwanted secondary wrist movement. This was not the case for index/middle/ring/pinky-finger movements. Since the wrist movement representations are expected to be located next to the pinky-finger, we were sceptical that the secondary thumb representation form Ejaz might actually refer to unwanted wrist movement?<br />
In our own BOLD data, we find some cases of signal leakage from S1 to M1 (across the central sulcus), which might introduce artifactual double representation in M1. Since, Ejaz et al., also used BOLD sequences, we speculate that this might have been the case in those data too? <br />
The text of the paper [Ejaz et al., 2015] does not discuss the secondary blob at all. Neither does it mention it in the context of a potential double-representations or mirrored representation. Thus we are hesitant to include it as a reference for this feature. If would be more appropriate for us to give the authors of [Ejaz et al., 2015] full credit for the discovery of mirrored representations, if they would have described it and discussed it consistently across people.
It is further to note that the above statement in our preprint referred to the sensory cortex, not the motor cortex.
Revision to avoid future misunderstandings:<br />
We think this misunderstanding can be resolved by removing the [Ejaz et al. 2015] citation on page 5. Instead we discuss the paper in more depth on page 7.
R1.4 <br />
Furthermore, they (Ejaz et al.) go on to show that the stable structure of overlap of finger representations in M1 and S1 can be accounted for by the statistics of everyday hand movement. They did not interpret the spatial variability of these patterns as "noise due to inter-individual variability in every day hand movements". On the contrary, the statistics of hand use they showed is stable across individuals (also see Ingram et al., 2008, Exp. Brain Res.), as is the organizing principle underlying the spatial organization of activity patterns in M1 and S1.
1.) Justification for our statements in the previous version of the paper:<br />
We assume the comment from the reviewer refers to the following section of our manuscript on page 6:
“Previous studies by Sane et al. (1995) and by Ejaz et al. (2015) already identified deviations from linear organizations for finger representations in the human motor cortex with GE-BOLD at 2.5 mm and 1.4 mm resolutions, respectively. However, without the localization specificity, a consistent spatial layout principle, such as the mirrored finger representation alignment, was not found. Instead, the exact pattern of overlapping and segregated representations was interpreted as noise due to inter-individual variability in every day hand movements (Ejaz 2015).”
We included this interpretation of Ejatz’ results based on the first few sentences of the discussion section in [Ejaz et al., 2015] on page 1039:
“The relative similarities between activity patterns were preserved across individuals, despite the substantial spatial inter-subject variability of the activity patterns themselves. The representational structure remained invariant even when the shared somatotopic arrangement of the digits was removed from the data. This suggests an organizing mechanism that shapes the overlap between patterns without enforcing a regular spatial layout. The representational structure could be predicted by the natural statistics of hand use.“
If we understand the highlighted section correctly, Ejaz et al. found that there are deviations from a simple somatotopic organization. And the patterns of these deviations have a considerable variability across people. It is not clear, however, according to which consistent organization principle this variability comes about.
In our view, we thus (mis-)described the phrase “inter-individual variability without given structure” with the term “noise due to inter-individual variability”.
Revision to avoid future misunderstandings:<br />
We agree that the term “noise due to inter-individual variability” might be misleading to describe “inter-individual variability”. In the revised version of the manuscript, the corresponding section is revised as follows:<br />
A previous study by Ejaz et al. (2015) already identified deviations from linear organizations for finger representations in the human motor cortex with GE-BOLD at 2.5 mm and 1.4 mm resolutions, respectively. These data already showed some indications of multiple finger representations (e.g. Fig. 1 in (Ejaz et al. 2015)). However, these data were not discussed with respect to an alternative geometric somatotopic organization principle such as a mirrored representation.
R1.5 <br />
I definitely agree with the authors that M1 organization is more complex arrangement than simple linear finger organization. Whether the organization really is best described by two discrete finger maps with phase reversal, however, really has to await a more rigorous experimental and statistical evaluation than even what is presented in Huber et al. Whatever the answer may be, however, I do think that the improved specificity of VASO sequence may play an important role in uncovering such representations in the future, but I don't feel that what has been shown goes much beyond what is known from the literature already.
We are glad that the reviewer agrees with our work showing that the M1 representations can be complex. We agree that the literature needs to be augmented with more rigorous studies.<br />
In fact, with the manuscript at hand we intent to do just that: providing a more rigorous experimental evaluation. We aim to move beyond the position of Ejaz et al. Namely, we aim to go beyond the conclusion “that the motor cortex is more complicated than individual finger representations”, . and describe how it is different, how these differences are geometrically organized, and whether they are stable across people.<br />
Accounting also the large bulk of electrophysiological and micro-stimulation evidence about the body-part sub-divisions in M1 we opt to see how these representation are in agreement with the results from Ejaz.<br />
In previous imaging studies (including Ejaz et al.,) it was common to view M1 as one large chunk of cortex that would follow the same architectonic principle. There is a large body of invasive literature, however, that suggests that this is not correct, neither functionally (Rathelot and Strick, 2006, 2009) nor anatomically (Geyer 1996). Thus, we intend to describe the body-part representations with a more rigorous fine-scale evaluation. To get there, we developed the advanced methodology as described here. And we start to describe the simplest movement principle of the literature (finger tapping) in the simplest part of M1, namely the evolutionary “old” M1 that has been described as body part representations. <br />
Thus, we feel that our findings go beyond what it known form the literature already.
Reviewer #3: <br />
General Comments: <br />
This paper uses the vascular space occupancy (VASO) method of measuring cerebral blood volume (fMRI) to explore the somatotopy of the finger representation at a sub-millimeter resolution in M1 and S1 of humans. This is an important problem as prior fMRI papers exploring this issue did not have sufficient resolution to adequately address a fine grained topography for fingers. This paper appears to have adequate resolution (~0.8mm) to make a major contribution to understanding the topography of the hand in M1 as well as S1. As such, this paper is primarily one of anatomical location and fMRI reconstruction. In addition, it addresses the issue of whether a given body part representation is always active when that body part is moved. The answer is that there is functional specialization within each M1finger representation. The figures are complex and it is paramount that their display is straightforward, consistent and simple to understand.
R3.1. The stated goal of this paper is to"non-invasively investigate the functional organization topography across columnar and laminar structures in humans", particularly M1 and S1. To understand the topography of the fingers in M1, the entire extent of the finger representations in M1 must be accurately mapped. Such maps are shown in Figs. 6S and 10S. These maps, for each participant, could form the core of an important paper, but they belong in the main body of the paper. They also need to be shown systematically for each participant. The data showing the columnar organization of M1 and S1 seem like important validating information for the reconstruction of the central sulcus. Some of this could be moved to the Supplementary information. What is currently displayed in Figs. 1-5 is just a small sample from the entire extent of slices through M1. Although the concept of mirror hand representations derived from single slices is appealing, it is only represents a small fraction of the entire map of the central sulcus. Furthermore, the single fMRI slices totally ignore the finger representations present in the depth of the central sulcus.
We would like to clarify our goal of this study. We feel the quoted section was taken out of context. As mentioned in the abstract, it was not our goal to ‘investigate the complete topographical organization of the motor cortex at its entirety’. Instead, the quoted section comes from an introductory sentence that states that our goal actually was to ‘develop imaging and analysis methodology, which -in principle- allows us to investigate topographical features’. In a next step we then use the M1/S1 system as a test bed to investigate the neuroscientific usefulness of that methodology. Given that we find -previously not described- neuroscience findings of the mirrored digit representation, we think that the neuroscientific usefulness it confirmed. In this sense, we see our manuscript to lie along a fine line between a methods paper and neuroscience paper.
We agree with the reviewer that every figure in the Manuscript and the Supplementary information is “tuned” to a specific message that we want to bring across. We further agree that Figs. 1-5 in the main manuscript are just a small sample of the main story and there is much more information to be seen. We don’t see this as a weakness of the manuscript. But as a means to follow the comment R3.14, namely selectively showing figures that have a specific message, which comes across as intuitive as possible.
In order to discuss the mirrored pattern of digit representations, we find it most natural to zoom into the hand area (Fig. 1). Correspondingly, when it comes to showing the inter-participant consistently of this feature (Fig. 2), we find it advantageous to use the same imaging procedure across all people as in Fig. 1. However, when it comes to explaining where these features are located across the dimensions of the central sulcus, we show additional unzoomed images. <br />
We agree with the reviewer that entire maps of the unflattened sensory-motor-system would give a more comprehensive view. However, it would distract the reader from the feature of interest. Those entire maps would mostly contain nothing (e.g. all the non-stimulated body parts, trunk, face, feet, etc.) and the 3-8mm of interest would be tiny (e.g. See Fig. S6). <br />
To address the reviewers comment, we included the full maps of the central sulcus into the manuscript main body (new figure 3), additional to the zoomed images.<br />
Furthermore, we included additional IMAGIRO maps (as requested) of for more participants with zoomed and unzoomed sections to guide the reader which part of the superior part of M1 it refers to (See new Fig. S6E).
The of laminar and columnar fMRI is still emerging. Thus, not all potential sources of analysis artifacts are fully described and understood. To minimize potential misinterpretation it has been suggested to depict the final results as close to the raw data as possible (Polimeni 2017; Kay 2019). Thus we try to show the activation maps in the raw EPI space (Fig. 1,2,4), when possible. This way, it can be easily be directly appreciated that the mirrored finger pattern is not an artifact of a flawed infolding artifact. Furthermore, the activity maps in EPI space best depict the spatial scale of columnar size with respect to the cortical thickness and location at the hand knob. Flattened maps are produced by several additional steps and are presented in an very abstract space where, these reference dimensions are lost. Thus, we are hesitant to remove the activation maps on the folded cortex from the manuscript. However, we included additional unfolded flattened maps in the supplementary material.
Please note that we are also required to following the Journal’s Guidelines to only include material that is central to the narrative. In doing so, we follow the rule of not having more than double of supplementary figures as figures in the main text. Thus, is included the some of additional maps as figure-panels, not as additional stand-alone figures.
We revised the manuscript to account for the reviewer’s comment. Specifically, we rephrased the abstract and introduction section to make our goals clearer. We also tried to make it clearer what the message is for each figure, in the figure captions respectively.
Kay, K., Jamison, K., Vizioli, L., Zhang, R., Margalit, E., & Ugurbil, K. (2019). A critical assessment of data quality and venous effects in sub-millimeter fMRI. NeuroImage, 189, 847–869. http://doi.org/10.1016/j.ne... <br />
Polimeni, J. R., Renvall, V., Zaretskaya, N., & Fischl, B. (2017). NeuroImage Analysis strategies for high-resolution UHF-fMRI data. NeuroImage, (April), 1–25. http://doi.org/10.1016/j.ne...
R3.2. The orientation of brain images and reconstructions should be the same in every figure. For example, Fig. 1A and 1E seem to have the right side of the brain image toward the right whereas Fig. 1B-D has it to the left. In Fig. 6S, the orientation of the CS appears to be opposite to that shown in Fig. 10S. Continually forcing the reader to flip the images creates unnecessary confusion. Since this paper shows the right hemisphere, left/medial should be on page left and right/lateral should be on page right. The terms medial and lateral are preferable to left and right. In Figs. 6S, 10S, the actual location of the medial wall/sagittal fissure should be indicated. Without this marker, the CS just floats in space with no anchor to the actual brain image. A calibration should be included on each image.
We agree that the orientation is confusing. This comes from the fact that the convention of MRI images is to view them as they would look like from the experimenter perspective. E.g. looking at an axial cut from the perspective of the participants feet. The right motor cortex of the person is then depicting on the left. This is contradicting to the 3D-head-models from viewing from above. Thus, the 3D-views and the 2D-views were confusing.<br />
Based on the reviewers comments, we tried to make it more consistent in Fig. 1, S6 and S10. This means however, that the 3D-head-models are mirrored representations compared to their real-live pendants. <br />
We included additional calibration markers and the landmarks of the medial wall in multiple figures. E.g. Fig. S6, S9, S3.
R3.3. The term 'multiple' is used incorrectly throughout the manuscript. Multiple means 'more than 2'.
We respectfully disagree with the reviewer on this point. In our understanding, the term ‘multiple’ refers to ‘more than one’ (source: https://en.oxforddictionari... "https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/multi-)"). We chose this term deliberately vague. We find only two mirrored representation consistently across all participants. However, we cannot exclude the possibility that there are more representation hidden below the detection threshold. Since absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, we would like to refrain from calling it “double” representation. This excludes the possibility of a third or fourth representation. <br />
In one participant, with a large tilting angle, and with a very low threshold, we see indications of a third representation. However, since its not reproducible across participants, its discussion is subject to future experiments with more sensitive imaging methodology only.
R3.4. It is unclear how the images in Fig. 1E were developed. What do the colors mean? Why is this representation shown here when it is not used until Figs. 3S, 6S.
Fig. 1 was intended as a figure describing the methods applied in this study. Thus, we included the coordinate system of layers and columns in 3D-grids as they are used for the directional smoothing. We agree with the reviewer that it can be confusing, we thus removed the panel E from the figure in the revised version of the manuscript.
R3.5. Discussion- <br />
The requested revisions in the data presentation will require revision of comparisons to other fMRI papers. <br />
The Discussion would be improved by a more extensive comparison to studies in monkeys where most of the mapping of M1 has occurred. An excellent brief summary of the monkey literature may be found in the section written by Paul Cheney in Omrani et al, 2017. The discussion should address two issues. <br />
First, a comparison of the organization of human M1 to the anatomical and physiological explorations of this region in the monkey. Second, the issue of specialization (separate regions of grasping and retraction) has its basis in monkey data that indicates specialization of M1 neurons for specific tasks.
We agree with the reviewer that the summary from Cheney provides a nice summary about representations in the motor cortex learned from monkey experiments. Based on this summary, we included an additional paragraph into the discussion section that should address the two issues.
Most of the knowledge on the functional representation of movements in the primary motor cortex has been obtained from countless experiments in monkeys over the last century. The current state of consensus in the field is nicely summarized by Paul Cheney in (Omrani 2017; see also referenced therein); Overall, corticomotoneuronal cells in the primary motor encode muscle-related parameters of movement such as muscle activity and muscle force. Although some corticomotoneuronal cells in the primary motor cortex (particularly those involved with finger movements) have their terminations confined to motoneurons of single muscles, a large amount of corticomotoneuronal cells are not rigidly coupled to the activity of its target muscles but show specialization for particular movements or categories of muscle activity. Namely, almost half of the corticomotoneuronal cells facilitate muscles involving at least one distal and one proximal joint and are specialized for specific muscle synergies, E.g. for reach-to-grasp movements. With respect to action representations shown in Fig. 2B, it is important to note that Cheney and Fetz (1985) had previously identified the muscle fields of neighboring corticomotoneuronal cells. They showed that neighboring corticomotoneuronal had muscle fields that were very similar. Hence, the notion of cortical patches that are preferentially activated for grasping and retraction actions (Fig. 2B) has its basis in previous monkey data and could refer to these previously described muscle fields.
Specific Comments:
R3.6. The first sentence of the Significance statement is incomprehensible. In general, the significance of this study is not well explained.
Since the significance statement is removed from the revised version of the manuscript.
R3.7. Introduction- Sanes et al., 1995 did not study monkeys.
We agree with the reviewer. The Sanes reference is moved to a different section now.
R3.8. "However, the organizational principle of smaller body parts such as individual digits could not be resolved due to the lack of localization specificity of conventional GE-BOLD fMRI and the sparse sampling of invasive electrophysiological recordings." This may be true for fMRI but the electrophysiological stimulation in monkeys (Kwan et al.l 1978; Strick and Preston, 1982 [up to 16 penetrations per 1mm2]) and Park et al. 2001) can hardly be described as sparse.
We agree with the reviewer that the term “sparse” might be misleading and does not give those experiments’ justice. The point we were trying to make is, that fMRI is inherently a continuous mapping technique that continuously samples the entire cortical sheath without any holes between electrodes. Which is true even at low resolutions. To address the reviewers comment, we revised the paragraph in the introduction section.
R3.9. Lin et al 2011 is often used as evidence that VASO accurately measures CBV. However, close examination of Fig. 1 in Lin et al reveals that the VASO and Gd-DTPA blood volume measurements often do not occupy the same voxels. That is, many VASO voxels with significant activation have no significant Gd-DTPA activation and many Gd-DTPA voxels with significant activation have no VASO activation. This observation suggests that VASO does not accurately represent CBV when voxel to voxel comparisons are made by the two different methods of measuring CBV. What other evidence, other than theoretical, indicates that VASO accurately measures CBV? (Lin AL, Lu H, Fox PT, Duong TQ. Cerebral blood volume measurements- Gd-DTPA vs. VASO - and their relationship with cerebral blood flow in activated human visual cortex. Open Neuroimag. J. 2011; 5: 90-95.)
We share the reviewer’s concerns whether VASO is a good measure for CBV. For this reason, we validated our SS-SI-VASO variant with gold-standard methods in multiple setups across the last 5 years. Ranging from concomitant VASO imaging with optical imaging spectroscopy in rats, up to validations of layer-dependent VASO signal with MION/Ferraheme imaging in rats and monkeys.
While we agree that Fig. 1 in Lin et al., shows deviations of VASO and Gd-DTPA, we would like to refrain from speculating what might be the reason for this. Reasons could range from acquisition challenges up to analysis inconsistencies. See the following reference:
Huber, L., et al (2015). Micro- and macrovascular contributions to layer-dependent blood blood volume fMRI: A multi-modal, multi-species comparison. ISMRM. doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.7490/f... ).
Note that our validation studies are quantitative in physical units of ml. This is in contrast to significance maps in Lin et al., that might be prone to biases in different noise characteristics post-injection of GD. <br />
Also note that our validations are carried out across columnar structures (B) and laminar structures (C).
See figures from:<br />
Huber, L., Goense, J.B.M., Kennerley, A.J., Guidi, M., Trampel, R., Turner, R., and Möller, H.E. (2015). Micro- and macrovascular contributions to layer-dependent blood blood volume fMRI: A multi-modal, multi-species comparison. In Proceedings of the International Society of Magnetic Resonance in Medicine, p. 2114. Doi: http://dx.doi.org/10.7490/f...<br />
Huber, L., Goense, J.B.M., Kennerley, A.J., Trampel, R., Guidi, M., Ivanov, D., Gauthier, C.J., Turner, R., Möller, H.E., Reimer, E., et al. (2015). Cortical lamina-dependent blood volume changes in human brain at 7T. Neuroimage 107, 23–33.<br />
Huber, L. (2015). Mapping human brain activity by functional magnetic resonance imaging of blood volume. University of Leipzig. https://fim.nimh.nih.gov/fi... <br />
Kennerley, A.J., Huber, L., Mildner, T., Mayhew, J.E., Turner, R., Möller, H.E., and Berwick, J. (2013). Does VASO contrast really allow measurement of CBV at high field (7 T)? An in-vivo quantification using concurrent optical imaging spectroscopy. In Proceedings of the International Society of Magnetic Resonance in Medicine, p. 0757.
In the revised version of the manuscript, we included the following additional paragraph into the discussion section:
Note that the CBV weighting in VASO has been extensively validated by comparisons with gold-standard methods in rats and monkeys across layer and columns (Huber et al., 2015a-c; Kennerley et al., 2013).
R3.10. The voxel size is listed as 0.89mm x 0.99mm on page 2 versus 0.79mmx0.79mmx 0.99mm on page 1. Which is correct?
The correction resolution is 0.79 mm. This typo is corrected in the revised version of the manuscript.
R3.11. Was the smoothing across layers a directional smoothing?
The reviewer is correct. The layer-smoothing was applied in specific directions only. It was only applied in the direction that is parallel to the column. There was no smoothing perpendicular to this direction. <br />
Note that this way of “directional” smoothing refers to cortical directions. The smoothing was independent of the direction in the laboratory frame of reference. As such, the smoothing is applied independent of the orientation of read-direction, slice-direction and phase direction. The LAYNII program LN_DIRECT_SMOOTH was not applied in this study. <br />
An additional sentence about this is included in the revised version of the manuscript.
R3.12. Page 13- "...primary motor cortex is 4 mm (Fischl and Dale 2000), the resolution of 0.79 mm used here allows us to obtain 5-7 independent data points across the 20 layers. The number of 20 layers is chosen based on previous experience in finding a compromise". This description is hard to understand. Suggest something like- The cortical thickness of the primary motor cortex is 4 mm (Fischl and Dale 2000). With our resolution of 0.79 mm, we obtained 5-7 independent data points across the thickness of the cortex. These data points were upsampled to create 20 layers across the thickness of the cortex. Twenty layers was chosen based on previous experience in finding a compromise... These 20 layers were smoothed and extracted (tell me what you did here) in sheets to produce a reconstruction of the face of the anterior bank of the central sulcus (Figs. 3S, 6S, 10S).
Based on the reviewer’s suggestion, we tried provide a more detailed description of the underlying assumptions and the necessity of using so many layers in a recent blog post: https://layerfmri.com/2019/... <br />
In the revised version of the manuscript, we the included the following summarizing statement:
The cortical thickness of the primary motor cortex is 4 mm (Fischl and Dale 2000). With our resolution of 0.79 mm, we obtained 5-7 independent data points across the thickness of the cortex. Across these data points, we created 20 layers across the thickness of the cortex on a 4-fold finer grid than the effective resolution. The number of twenty layers was chosen based on previous experience in finding a compromise data size and smoothness (see Fig. S6 in (Huber 2018)). Columnar profiles in Fig. 3 and Fig. S4 are generated from unsmoothed data. For Figs. S3 and S6, the functional signal was smoothed with 0.5 mm within columns and extracted in sheets to produce a reconstruction of the face of the anterior bank of the central sulcus. No smoothing was applied across columns.
R3.13. Fig. 2B- For participant 5, the copper and turquoise outlines are reversed. Hue of copper and turquoise colors are not consistent in each panel. <br />
In last panel of 2B, first line- there is a hand in this panel. What is its purpose? If the purpose is to be a key for finger color, the thumb should be magenta.
The reviewer is right, the copper and turquoise patch seems reversed in participant 5. Note, however that this is not a presentation error in the preparation of the images. We find that the grasping-extension patches do not follow a the same organization principle along the medial-lateral direction across participants. It is highly dependent on the position of the axial projection chosen. E.g. it can be seen in Fig. S6 (and previous version of Fig. S9) that, dependent on the depth of the central sulcus, the copper and turquoise patches are either on the medial or lateral side. Please also note that participant 5 is not an outlier here; in fact, participant 1 (in the same figure) has the same copper-turquoise alignment as participant 5. Please also note, that the sensory cortex consistently shows a grasping preference, across all participants.
The additional hand pictogram had been included as a figure key to remind the reader, which color refers to which finger. Based in the reviewers comments, it is excluded in the revised version of the manuscript. It is already shown in panel A) anyway.
R3.14. Fig. S3C- Several features of this figure make it hard to decipher and undermine the explanation of the reconstruction method. I am assuming that the little squares in panel B are equivalent to columns. This should be stated explicitly. If the colors correspond to the fingers, then the mirror representation of the hand shown in Figs. 1-3 is nowhere to be found. This is confounding. It may be useful to show the location of the slice in panel D. Panel D is reversed from panel A, creating needless confusion. In panel C, the laminar thickness of the cortex is greater than the depth of the central sulcus. Calibrations would help but why not make the laminar thickness accurate? State explicitly that the IMAGIRO reconstruction consists of 20 layers, each like the one in B. Spelling- Columnar 'distance' <br />
It took me a long time to understand what you were doing. The descriptions of the reconstruction needs to be simple, clear and intuitive or very few will comprehend them. It all makes sense but the reader should not have to go to the blog (which I did) to understand them.
We thank the reviewer for the suggestions to make this figure clearer. We also applaud the reviewers level of commitment to check the description on our blog.<br />
-> The little squares indeed refer to the columnar dimension. Additional comments are included in the caption.<br />
-> The colors do not refer to finger dominance, but to the medial-lateral position. This is included in the caption now.<br />
-> The location colors are now included in panel C, as suggested.<br />
-> Panels C and D are now switched, as suggested.<br />
-> If, the laminar thickness could be accurately depicted, all 20 layers would be 2-3 mm apart in the figure. If we would depict it in the right geometry, the layers could not be separated with the naked eye. Scale bars are included as suggested, which points out how they are distorted.<br />
-> An explicit reference about 20 layers is included.<br />
-> The typo is corrected in “distance”
Updated Fig. 3:
We agree, that an intuitive image is helpful. Here, we tried to find a compromise of simple intuitive figures that are representing the complexity of the analysis without making the supplementary material too long. The reviewer’s comments are appreciated to achieve this.
R3.15. Fig. 4S part B- Should note that this is upsampled to produce 20 layers.
The revised version of the manuscript has an additional statement included:
Note that the size of layer and column structures are smaller than the effective resolution of 0.79 mm. They are estimated in an upscaled space.
R3.16. Fig. 9S- Why is the background of the VASO view of the anterior bank of the CS entirely red? This implies that the entire CS is related to the 5th finger. How is that possible? Why are there yellow and green patches distributed all along the CS? This arrangement is different from any of the other figures. There does not seem to be a double mirror representation in this participant. <br />
In the bottom panels, why is the view limited to just part of M1 instead of the whole of M1? In general, this figure is quite confusing and really difficult to interpret. The organization of the grasping and retraction patches is an important issue. A better explanation (illustration?) of what you are trying convey in this figure is necessary.
We agree with the reviewer that previous Figure S9 could be confusing. We tried to show too many features in one Figure. Our goal of this figure was to show the consistency of the finger representations across the different tasks and also to show the position of the mirrored representation along the depth of the central sulcus. Based on the reviewer’s comments, we decided to remove Fig. S9. From the manuscript. We believe that these to messages already come across from Fig. S5, S6, S9 (new).
To answer the reviewer’s questions (for the sake of his/her curiosity): <br />
-> The top-right figure was included for the sake of orientation. It was not included to suggest the significance of the mirrored pattern. Thus, we did not threshold the finger dominances at all. In areas outside the hand-knob, therefore, the finger-preference measure for all fingers is close to 0. The red color outside the hand knob does not mean that this finger is represented there. It only means that all the other fingers are even noisier. E.g. that the finger preference for the index finger is 0.0014 compared to other fingers with a finger preference of 0.0005. For reference, in the hand knob, the finger preferences are in the regime 0.3-1 (please, see Fig. 3B about the absolute selectivity strengths in an outside the hand knob). The previous figure S9 corresponds to the line graph in Fig. 3B from above. <br />
-> We believe that there is, in fact, a mirrored pattern visible in this figure. Within the Brodman area subsection BA4A, the color pattern is reversed.
R3.17. Fig. 10S- in the right panel, the orientation seems to be incorrect. That is, left is lateral and right is medial which means the left ear arrow should be pointing to the right.
We agree, the arrow description now says “right” ear.
R3.18. I suggest alphabetizing the reference list.
In the updated reference list “S” is after “O”.
R3.19. The correct citation is- Meier JD, Aflalo TN, Kastner S, Graziano MS. Complex organization of human primary motor cortex: a high-resolution fMRI study. J Neurophysiol. 2008 Oct;100(4):1800-12. doi: 10.1152/jn.90531.2008. Epub 2008 Aug 6
The reference is updated.